Curse

Dr Strangelove · Aug 31, 2007, 05:56 AM // 05:56

It exists, and it's important. If it didn't exist, there would be no conceptual problem with 1-hit killing monsters while having no chance of dying yourself.

Therefore, despite what a lot of players on these boards seem to think, skills need to be both buffed and nerfed to correct for imbalances in PvE.

Discuss.

bloodvayne · Aug 31, 2007, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Liar .

kazjun · Aug 31, 2007, 06:00 AM // 06:00

You can practically slaughter whole mobs solo whilst being invincible with the right build right now anyway...

Redfeather1975 · Aug 31, 2007, 06:01 AM // 06:01

PVE may be tough to properly balance.
Even though mobs can be gimped...weak skill bars, not spontaneous and very predictable, they do however get certain advantages...quicker reaction time, higher energy regen, multi-bars (chromatic drakes)....stuff like that.
And content is pretty broad, there are battles ranging from 1 big super immune boss, to 20 lvl 20+ mobs.
I have no idea how to properly balance a skill considering how PVE battles are very different than PVP.

Omniclasm · Aug 31, 2007, 06:01 AM // 06:01

True, so then lets get rid of all AoE skills. Nerf eles some more since they usually make about 50-60% of an "elite" missions group. Then we need to nerf all of protection prayers, because focusing everything on one warrior, making him invincible while he tanks 30 monsters is sort of overpowered.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 31, 2007, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

True, so then lets get rid of all AoE skills. Nerf eles some more since they usually make about 50-60% of an "elite" missions group. Then we need to nerf all of protection prayers, because focusing everything on one warrior, making him invincible while he tanks 30 monsters is sort of overpowered.

You mean like with the addition of AoE panic? Or with the prot bond nerf? No? Perhaps you were referring to the removal of the gear trick? No? Ok, then you were clearly referring to the armor stack cap. Not that either? Hmmm, then you must be referring to the warrior absorption change. I'm still wrong? Well, in that case you're clearly referring to the searing flames nerf. Not that either? Crap, I'm bad at this. Maybe you're talking about the monster AI updates so they don't instantly go after the first thing in sight. Wrong again? Ok, must be the spirit bond nerf you're talking about now.

Well, I give up.

Hollow Gein · Aug 31, 2007, 06:25 AM // 06:25

^LOL...maybe you should. You'll end up beating a dead horse with this.

darkknightkain · Aug 31, 2007, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

It exists, and it's important. If it didn't exist, there would be no conceptual problem with 1-hit killing monsters while having no chance of dying yourself.

Therefore, despite what a lot of players on these boards seem to think, skills need to be both buffed and nerfed to correct for imbalances in PvE.

Discuss.

It would be nice to have pve balance (skills, map, mob lv, distributions, compositions, patrol path, AI, allies AI, npc pathings... lots of things can be done) , but the point is moot if anet still have their skill change pvp-driven without any consideration to pve.

Even if anet can and does achieve your perfect pve balance right now, it will just be broken again upon the next pvp-driven skill change. After all, it is simpler to whine on boards to get any skills don't like nerfed for pvp, rather than have the build/team augmented to handle the deficiencies.

And that pvp-skill change will be in when, next month? When that happens, the pve imbalance will just go back to square one again.

artay · Aug 31, 2007, 07:13 AM // 07:13

You can't balance something that doesn't exist.

I know that didn't make sense, so quote me, I dare you.

Patrick Smit · Aug 31, 2007, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Balance would exist if mobs would be programmed according game rule, with so many parameters not according game mechanics you can't possibly manage PvE balance right.

Crisis Redux · Aug 31, 2007, 07:14 AM // 07:14

separate pvp and pve skill balancing

Yichi · Aug 31, 2007, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkknightkain

It would be nice to have pve balance (skills, map, mob lv, distributions, compositions, patrol path, AI, allies AI, npc pathings... lots of things can be done) , but the point is moot if anet still have their skill change pvp-driven without any consideration to pve.

Even if anet can and does achieve your perfect pve balance right now, it will just be broken again upon the next pvp-driven skill change. After all, it is simpler to whine on boards to get any skills don't like nerfed for pvp, rather than have the build/team augmented to handle the deficiencies.

And that pvp-skill change will be in when, next month? When that happens, the pve imbalance will just go back to square one again.

Because farming runs are so much more important than a player driven tournament worth thousands of dollars...

FelixCarter · Aug 31, 2007, 07:20 AM // 07:20

I agree with the OP. But ANet has been more "Nerf" lately and less "Balance".

I'll use Seed of Life again (sorry, peeps) as an example.
When comparing it to other healing skills (assuming your Heal/Prot Prayers and Divine Favor are high enough), SoL is anything but worthy of the skill bar now.

When nerfing the time a skill is in effect, look at its energy cost. 5 seconds of Mass Healing Seed for 10 energy and a recharge of 25 seconds? Definately choose another healing skill...

But with an energy cost of 5 and a recharge of 20 seconds? Now I might take another look at it the next time I'm doing a mission with the Guild.

When balancing skills, balance them. Don't nerf them so that they aren't even worth the trouble.
(Other nerfs may vary. This is just an example of when it's all nerf and no balance.)

matti90 · Aug 31, 2007, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

Because farming runs are so much more important than a player driven tournament worth thousands of dollars...

We have a winner.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 31, 2007, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixCarter

I agree with the OP. But ANet has been more "Nerf" lately and less "Balance".

I'll use Seed of Life again (sorry, peeps) as an example.
When comparing it to other healing skills (assuming your Heal/Prot Prayers and Divine Favor are high enough), SoL is anything but worthy of the skill bar now.

When nerfing the time a skill is in effect, look at its energy cost. 5 seconds of Mass Healing Seed for 10 energy and a recharge of 25 seconds? Definately choose another healing skill...

But with an energy cost of 5 and a recharge of 20 seconds? Now I might take another look at it the next time I'm doing a mission with the Guild.

When balancing skills, balance them. Don't nerf them so that they aren't even worth the trouble.
(Other nerfs may vary. This is just an example of when it's all nerf and no balance.)

This is a perfectly fine statement as far as I'm concerned. Everyone who has a clue knows that seed of life was overpowered. It needed a nerf. Now, you could easily argue that the nerf was too harsh, of handled the skill in the wrong way. Heck, that's a good thing. All the talk about "imbalance everything, monsters won't whine" bothers me a lot, mostly because it's stupid.

5e is still probably too good for the effect, but lowering the recharge would probably be ok. That way it becomes a more active skill you throw on people getting pounded on for a few seconds, rather than keeping it up on a tank forever. Trouble is, the thing really goes berserk on a bonder.

seut · Aug 31, 2007, 07:37 AM // 07:37

PvE skill balance is an illusion, when you add craftable god mode items at the same time (assuming the latter 2 are ebon vanguard craft items):
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Grail_of_Might
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Scroll_of_Resurrection
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Powerstone_of_Courage
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Armor_of_Salvation

Series · Aug 31, 2007, 07:37 AM // 07:37

I agree. Balance does matter with PvE skills as well.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 31, 2007, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

PvE skill balance is an illusion, when you add craftable god mode items at the same time (assuming the latter 2 are ebon vanguard craft items):
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Grail_of_Might
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Scroll_of_Resurrection
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Powerstone_of_Courage
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Armor_of_Salvation

One thing is broken therefore everything should be broken isn't really a good argument in my opinion.

seut · Aug 31, 2007, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

One thing is broken therefore everything should be broken isn't really a good argument in my opinion.

When one thing is broken twice, it doesn't help trying to fix one crack and purposely ignoring the other.

Omniclasm · Aug 31, 2007, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

You mean like with the addition of AoE panic? Or with the prot bond nerf? No? Perhaps you were referring to the removal of the gear trick? No? Ok, then you were clearly referring to the armor stack cap. Not that either? Hmmm, then you must be referring to the warrior absorption change. I'm still wrong? Well, in that case you're clearly referring to the searing flames nerf. Not that either? Crap, I'm bad at this. Maybe you're talking about the monster AI updates so they don't instantly go after the first thing in sight. Wrong again? Ok, must be the spirit bond nerf you're talking about now.

Well, I give up.

Obviously you haven't seen the DoA team build then I am guessing? Or basically any elite mission team setup. Good job though, I'm proud, your my brave lil soldier.